Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

General discussion of all things Evan-y

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Rich
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Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Rich » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:07 am

An astounding gig - the band were on fire, the audience were well up for it and Evan was as cheerful as I've seen him for a long while! :D

Solo -
Being Around

Band -
"Ray" album

Solo -
Outdoor Type
Frying Pan
It's About Time
All My Life

Band -
Down About It
Hospital
No Backbone
Tenderfoot
Stove
If I Could Talk

Solo with Meredith Sheldon -
Mexico

Solo -
Divan
Favorite T
Ride WIth Me

Band -
Great Big No
Style
Into Your Arms
Taking hands across 1,000 miles of ocean.

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missjane70
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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by missjane70 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:30 am

Mexico, nice one.

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Boro Oop North » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:05 pm

Amazing how people have such differing views of the same show. As they say opinions are like assholes - we all have one.

For what it's worth here's mine:

Songs were great that's a given.
If that's Evan at his most cheerful, then boy I'd hate to see him on a bad day. He really didn't seem interested in the slightest. I'd hardly call that a band - no interraction, may as well have been Evan and the session musicians (albeit the drummer was outstanding).
Crowd was OK. A few people intent on having their own party in the middle, other than that not much going on.

I had a good time - but left feeling a little disappointed and short-changed (not by the length of show, but the amount of himself that Evan put into it)

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Yo la Pedro » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:59 pm

Boro Oop North wrote:Amazing how people have such differing views of the same show. As they say opinions are like assholes - we all have one.

For what it's worth here's mine:

Songs were great that's a given.
If that's Evan at his most cheerful, then boy I'd hate to see him on a bad day. He really didn't seem interested in the slightest. I'd hardly call that a band - no interraction, may as well have been Evan and the session musicians (albeit the drummer was outstanding).
Crowd was OK. A few people intent on having their own party in the middle, other than that not much going on.

I had a good time - but left feeling a little disappointed and short-changed (not by the length of show, but the amount of himself that Evan put into it)
Boro Oop North, I couldn't agree more.
I was in the process of writing something very similar, when my post expired pre-viewing :(

As a first time experience of watching Evan I was a little miffed about the way 'Into your arms' ended and Evan rushed off stage without so much as a goodbye or wave. That's not rock n roll, that's just being a bit naughty to paying punters who've made an effort to attend on a cold rainy/wind swept night in Mancunia. Cherish your fans Evan because the day they stop making the effort is the day that you've got real problems fella!

All and all though, musically they was sound despite the slight anti-climax to the gig.
To me it just felt like the band was going through the motions. Perhaps down to the fact that it's probably been a long tour and that there's still dates to fulfil - Much needed break required I reckon to re-charge the batteries and bring back the enthusiasm.

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Galfunk » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:26 pm

Evans voice still is one of the best ever ever.
Having only ever seen the David Ryan / Nic Dalton line up at Reading 94 I defiantly would pay stupid money for that line up again. The newie drummer tis good but DR really hit those toms.
Kinda woulda been good to have Shame About Ray images on the video rather than the tour journey stream but that’s a money issue for mgmt. Having seen Evan roll through Manchester every time the stand out gig is still Academy 3 with Kweller n Lee.
By the by the merch stand had “Hotel” on sale for £10. Today I’m thinking get him in a room with Rick Rubin for a raw acoustic album. His voice is that good.

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Boro Oop North » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:45 pm

Thanks Yo la Pedro - I was bracing myself for an adverse reaction to my post.

It was my fourth time seeing him - either on his own or with a band - and definitely the most disappointing.

I do agree with your post about cherishing your fans before they stop making the effort. One of my favourite artists is Francis Dunnery. For years people would turn up regardless of his occasional foul moods, and debatable output. Now it seems he's pushed it too far and turned off the majority of his fanbase.

There's a lesson to be learnt there. No matter how tired or disinterested you are - people have paid good money, and made an effort to come and see you.

Galfunk - the Rubin collaboration is a great idea. I've just downloaded Hotel Sessions from Amazon (£5.99). Yes, the sound is dodgy, but the joy he brings to the songs just shows what was missing from last night.

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Yo la Pedro » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:07 pm

No worries, Boro :D

I personally didn't wish my view to come across as stinging criticism (if anyone took offence). Far from it, I was just being honest. Overall me and the girlfriend had an enjoyable night, it was just that last moment that slightly soured it for us.
Maybe Evan is just going through a personal transition on this tour perhaps ??
Just hope he's an happy chappy, he's a talented songwriter all be it woefully underappreciated imo.

The 'Hotel Sessions' cd is brilliant, I love that Robert Pollard/GBV lo-fi tape sound. It adds to the charm :cool:

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by samstone » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:26 pm

I've read some not so complimentary reviews of live shows on here over the years, and hoped I'd never have to end up writing one.

My comments on the Portsmouth show last week were those of a dedicated follower who couldn't care less about how much the show cost, or how cold and windy the walk home was. I can appreciate the fact that Evan was probably knackered and hence the lacklustre performance. I'm also not naive enough to think that every show on 50 date (or whatever it is) tour is going to go down in blazing flames of glory into the rock and roll histroy book of greatest gigs ever!

I just think a little gesture or acknowledgement to the audience would go along way in these instances. We're all human - we all have our bad days at the office :)
I'm a lemonhead, you're a lemonhead - we're all lemonheads

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Yo la Pedro » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:49 pm

samstone wrote:I'm also not naive enough to think that every show on 50 date (or whatever it is) tour is going to go down in blazing flames of glory into the rock and roll histroy book of greatest gigs ever!

I just think a little gesture or acknowledgement to the audience would go along way in these instances. We're all human - we all have our bad days at the office :)
That's what was baffling to us last night, from my ears I thought that musically the band was good (ok I've no other Lemonheads gig experience to compare it against granted) however it was still good!

The little things go a long way though, that gig didn't feel unique.
I reckon you could play last nights recording to any other gig while the band mimed. No one would be any the wiser because there was no special crowd interaction that was unique to the night/surroundings. It was just missing that personal touch.

It's a Shame [color=#FFFFFF](about Ray!)[/color] really because them little touches if applied would've propelled a 'good' gig into a 'very good & memorable' gig :D

It's a cliché but if you're doing something that you really enjoy then it's not really a 'job' as such. If one is fortunate enough to make a living being creative and it then feels like a job, then it's probably best to turn it in! ;)

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by pneurotic » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:00 pm

Have a look at the videos here and tell me this is a man going through the motions;
http://forum.evandando.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5657
and more to the point the crowd appear to be enjoying themselves without the need for any great interactions with the band other than the music.

I agree with you that its each to their own, but also think a lot comes down to the pre-show expectations you take with you and whether they are fulfilled or not.

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Yo la Pedro » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:21 pm

pneurotic, I've never said I thought the performances were under par, or that the crowd was naffed off, far from it.

I just hinted that the band seemed rather bored of playing the same set, raced through the songs, then Evan raced off stage double speed at the end as if he was going to soil his pants without so much as a quick prior 'goodbye, cheers!'

Perhaps I'm being old fashioned and slightly highly strung but of all the gigs I've been to, I've been used to seeing even a slight degree of gratitude on finishing. Surely that's not too much to expect from a band is it ?! :D

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Galfunk » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm

I think Evan falls into a music maker that needs to be looked after rather than dissed. The voice and the songs are good enough not to have to showboat. Hearing a set list with Rudderless and Frying Pan last night is good enough for me with the shyness/aloofness.
I hope after the tour a line can be drawn on the retrospective and push on with new stuff. With a clutch of newie bands owing a lot to the 90s US generation Evan should be treated with high regard.

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by suzy » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:21 pm

I'm afraid small talk is not where his talent resides.
fan

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Rich
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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Rich » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:27 pm

Suzy is (unsurprisingly) bang on the money.

To be honest, I've been to see Evan/Lemonheads pretty much every time he's been in the UK since the early 90s and I can count on one hand the number of times he's said more than "thank you", let alone been "chatty".

When I go to see him I go to see my favourite singer/songwriter do what he does best, not to have a conversation with him, and to be honest I more often than not feel I should thank him, not the other way round.

If chat, bells and whistles are what you're after from a gig then perhaps Evan/Lemonheads gigs aren't for you...?

I'm not criticising anyone's opinion here; I think this forum is great in that we don't really get involved in all that stuff. I just thought I'd share my thoughts on the subject.
Taking hands across 1,000 miles of ocean.

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Ambidextrina
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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Ambidextrina » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:51 pm

I went to see Noel Gallaghers's High Flying Birds last night. Noel's insulting of the audience was really annoying and sounded as if he had learned them by heart.
Also, it is not appropriate to our age :lol: He'd better shut up!

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by samstone » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:42 pm

pneurotic wrote:Have a look at the videos here and tell me this is a man going through the motions;
http://forum.evandando.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5657
and more to the point the crowd appear to be enjoying themselves without the need for any great interactions with the band other than the music.

I agree with you that its each to their own, but also think a lot comes down to the pre-show expectations you take with you and whether they are fulfilled or not.
Point taken. My expectations were high because I've always had great experiences at past shows.
I'm a lemonhead, you're a lemonhead - we're all lemonheads

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by MAXIERILEY » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:28 pm

Can't wait to them in Orlando!!!

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Yo la Pedro » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:32 pm

Oh my giddy aunt, from what I've seen on this thread, there is those who are utterly honest.

Then there's those who quietly agree with the point but yet wish to remain on the fence.

Then there's those who appear, for want of a better phrase, have their own sycophantic rose tinted head up their @rse.

All can be solved with a nice strategic, but well meaning, gentle kick up a certain someone's botty, to up parts of their game. Everyone's a winner if all apply really, it's that simple.

Ps - Someone had to say it.

Pps - Evan, keep on keeping on, you're a talented fella. If folks didn't care then they wouldn't bother discussing - Here's to future great music :cool: :D

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Yo la Pedro » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:07 am

This is a random review via The Guardian (I'm not a Guardian fan generally so it's no plug on my part!) however the comment via 'LlivracNhoJ' articulates in certain parts what I was trying to make so much better than I did before...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/dec/05/lemonheads-evan-dando-review

LlivracNhoJ

7 December 2011 11:07AM

Still zero comments? Back in the day, there'd probably have been enough posts to crash a server, if we'd had servers back then. I read this review last night, whilst sitting in the Briton's Protection, gearing up for a few pre-gig pints, looking forward to seeing Evan Dando run through his classic album in Manchester. I found some of Dave's comments here a bit snide, but that was before I'd seen the show. Afterwards, I realised the review was far too lenient.

I don't think the Ritz was sold out, but it was probably close; there certainly was a good crowd in, and despite Dando's lackadaisical demeanour, these old songs received a warm and lively reception. Trouble is, classic or no classic, Shame About Ray is a short album, and once he'd run through it at suitably high speed, Dando then launched into a series of featureless dirges which alienated large swathes of the audience. By the time he did bring some fire back, for songs such as 'Into Your Arms', it was too little, too late.

The overall effect might best be described as 'instant hangover'. The Shame About Ray segment, whilst ramshackle and utterly bereft of audience engagement, went over well due to pure nostalgia. But the second half of the show as a comedown, a letdown, and a cause of bitter regret,

I guess this just illustrates the dangers of nostalgia. However much I enjoyed the adrenalised pop sugar rush of 'Alison's Starting to Happen' - and I did - it only served to emphasise the fact that the heyday of the Lemonheads was nigh on two decades ago.

I don't know anything about Dando's personal life or relationship with drugs right now, but on balance I'd say he'd have been better off taking heroin with two lesbians last night than treating his audience with such high-handed contempt. It's a shame...

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by bitparter » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:22 am

...about ray

bringing the noise to sheffield tomorrow / tonight (delete as appropriate)
groove, move and shake :music:

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Irrelevant Elephant » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:58 am

Awesome thread - finally some discussion about this man-child that we all love so much.

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Rich » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:47 am

Just re-read what I wrote yesterday and think it sounds a bit high-handed.

I agree with Pneurotic - it's all down to expectations - but I also stand by what I said about the music. I think Evan's done stuff the equal of Ray since then (pink album, anyone?).

I don't know what his opinion of his fans and audience is, I just know I've seen Evan do shite shows and I've seen great ones from him (e.g. Kweller/Lee show). For me, it's worth the gamble to hear the music.
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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Northtim » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:35 am

He doesn't speak much, thats just the way it is. He is a laid back slacker who makes great music but go to the gigs expecting almost any interaction and you will be disappointed. There should probably be a warning on the tickets.

I'm not defending this, it bugs the hell out of me! I have seem Evan/Lemonheads about 6 times so I know what to expect now and just enjoy the songs but I still feel frustrated that with a bit of effort it could be so much better.

I was disappointed at the Leeds gig that he didn't do a true acoustic section and stuck with the electric guitar for the solo. I feel some of his solo songs sound so much better with an acoustic guitar.

I enjoyed the gig BUT, having seen him 3 times in the last three years I may well skip if there is another tour in next couple of years without any new stuff. I feel like I have seen what he does 3 times recently and that is enough for now. This compares with James & Manics who I have seen a similar number of times and would willingly pay to see again soon as their energy and presence on stage really lift me that extra mile.

But hey, people are different and Evan is how he is - great musician, not a showman. The Ray tour seems to have sold very well but if people are feeling like me the next one could be less popular (and i still rate The Lemonheads as in my top 5 favourite bands of all time)
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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by jmhallam » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:07 pm

I wonder if Evan really likesto tour? Its clear he he loves to write and sing play his guitar--but I wonder if he likes touring & performing on demand & in the spot light or if its a neccessary evil?

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Re: Manchester Ritz, 6th December 2011

Post by Stefan01 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:12 pm

Tuesday night in Manchester and Wednesday night in Liverpool...both amazing gigs..seen Evan more times than I can recall and he sounds as good as ever as far as I'm concerned. I thought he was a bit more chatty in Liverpool but it was a really intimate venue and much different to The Ritz in Manchester.

If I had to rate I thought Manchester was the better of the two...venue much better....band were tighter however saying that Liverpool was great cause Evan was chilled and seemed to be enjoying himself more.

Here's to next time!!!!!

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